podcast

Chapter 127: Lenore Skenazy on killing coddling to create capable kids

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Early episodes of Sesame Street from the late 1960s show five-year-olds walking streets alone, talking to strangers, and playing on vacant lots, but when those episodes were released on DVD years later a warning was added at the beginning saying “The following is intended for adult viewing only and may not be suitable for young viewers.”

I read about this in ‘Stolen Focus’, the massive bestseller by Johann Hari, our guest in Chapter 121. Johann went on in his book to discuss how ‘the confinement of our children’ is contributing to our plummeting ability to focus and he brought the idea to light wonderfully in his book by spotlighting the activism of Lenore Skenazy.

Lenore Skenazy is a Jackson Heights, New York mom of two who wrote a 2008 column for The New York Sun titled ‘Why I Let My 9-Year-Old Ride The Subway Alone.’ The article set off a huge media firestorm where Lenore was dubbed “America’s Worst Mom.” Undeterred, Lenore went on to coin the phrase “free-range kids”, write a bestselling book by the same name, and then five years ago co-founded a non-profit called ‘Let Grow’ which aims to give kids back the developmentally crucial ‘vitamin’ our culture has removed from childhood: independence!

Before her current work, Lenore wrote for The New York Daily News, New York Sun, and Mad Magazine (!). She has degrees from Yale and Columbia and is on the front lines of movements to bring back trust, independence, and free play in our children. She has created The Let Grow Project which partners with schools to give students the simple homework assignment to “Go home and do something new, on your own.” She created ‘Take Our Children to the Park & Leave Them There Day’ as a day for children to learn how to play without constant supervision. And Let Grow, the organization she co-founded with Jonathan Haidt (our guest in Chapter 103), Dr. Peter Gray, and Daniel Shuchman, has been helping to draft and sponsor 'free-range kid' legislation supporting reasonable child independence. To date, they have helped pass laws in eight states.

Join us as we discuss: recess, preventing anxiety in kids, the problem with child protective services, getting attention in activism today, the importance of fun, and, of course, Lenore's three most formative books...

Let’s flip the page into Chapter 127 now...

Chapter 127: Lenore Skenazy on killing coddling to create capable kids

 
 
 
 

Chapter 126: Jully Black on anthem alterations and attitude absolutions

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I’ve been lucky enough to be invited onto ‘The Social’ a few times. Do you know the show? It’s like ‘The View’, but Canadian, with four dynamic hosts sharing fast-paced opinions in a raucous, bombastic, high-energy exchange. Producers hand you the topics of the day about 30 minutes before you go on — formed by that morning’s early headlines — and then it’s time to form an opinion and get ready to, no big deal, share it live with millions of people a few minutes later. Definitely one of the most challenging jobs I’ve ever had and I can’t tell you how much I admire people like Melissa Grelo, Cynthia Loyst, Lainey Lui, and Jess Allen, who do it day after day.

Since I’m guest-hosting it’s usually me onstage with three women — while one’s away — and we end up having full-on laugh attacks like this one. Well, one day, early in the pandemic, during the “live from everybody’s basement” era, I showed up ready to go on and discovered I was one of *two* guest hosts. The other was Jully Black! Canada’s R&B Queen. I’d heard of her but when the camera started rolling I fell in love. She was dynamic, bombastic, full of love, full of energy, and in the virtual green room after the show I invited her on 3 Books. (I knew she was a book lover because she’d been on Canada Reads — “the Survivor of Books” — a couple years before.)

Well, after a few years of planning, we finally pulled off our long-awaited live and in-person recording of 3 Books — up in Markham, Ontario, an hour north of Toronto — inside the 24-hour, 365-day-a-year, 68,000-square foot sauna and bath house Go Place. I had never been but Jully was a regular so we put on our checkerboard paper shorts and shirts and lounged on a couple curvy chairs before hitting record (and before hitting the hot and cold rooms afterwards.)

I think you’ll find this as fascinating a conversation as I did. Jully is a true icon — named one of ‘The 25 Greatest Canadian Singers Ever’ (CBC Music) with multiple singles reaching Top 10 pop, R&B, and dance music charts. She has sung for the Queen of England, she’s been inducted into Canada’s Walk of Fame, and, as you’ll hear, she took the bold stance of changing the words to Canada’s National Anthem on its largest global stage. Her activism wins praise, plaudits, and, yes, some poo-pooing, but if you know Jully — and you will soon if you don’t! — she takes it all in stride and then she manifests another great day. She’s somebody who is seemingly always vibrating on another level.

Jully has been in the game for three decades, scoring her first record deal as a teenager, and collaborating with endless legends like Nas, Choclair, and Destiny’s Child. She’s an activist, award-winning musical theater star, community organizer, and much, much more. In this conversation Jully shares secrets of artistic longevity, thoughts behind her decision to change the lyrics of ‘O Canada’ at the NBA All-Star game, her definition of allyship, how we learn to forgive ourselves, what a ‘blanket ceremony’ is, how we navigate the death of our parents, her 3 most formative books (of course), and much, much more…

Let’s flip the page into Chapter 126 now…

Chapter 126: Jully Black on anthem alterations and attitude absolutions

 
 
 
 

Chapter 125: Two Syrian Chefs share sheep and shawarma shopkeeping shenanigans

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“All the time focus on the positive things. Not the negative things. Then the karma, it will come, it will reflect to you.”

Meet Chef Osama Harwash and Chef Houssam Harwash. Two brothers who came to Canada as Syrian refugees and rented a food stall to begin crafting traditional recipes learned from four generations of Syrian chefs. Listen as they share lessons learned from their sheep-farming great-grandfather at the fall of the Ottoman Empire and then tell us how mint and cardamom help make the perfect lemonade for sweltering Torontonians.

I was riding past a tight row of graffiti-covered food stalls on an absolutely scorching day in downtown Toronto when I spotted these two gregarious brothers wedged into a tiny four-foot by four-foot booth smiling, wishing “happy days to their brothers and sisters” while making them chicken shawarmas, beef kofta plates, and grape leaves for a non-stop line of faithful fans. A 4.9 rating with over 500 reviews on Google since they opened doesn’t lie.

But what makes them tick?

“The most important thing in Toronto is community,” Osama says “We love Toronto. And we want to support our community So we make more food to make more people happy.”

Maybe it's as simple as that! Let’s take a break from the news flow, the omnipresent digital tide, to come down to the sidewalk to hang out with me, Osama, and Houssam as we discuss growing up with six brothers in Damascus, 800-year-old houses, the perfect drink for a good sleep, lessons from ancient Arabic philosophy, the joys of taking time to slowly craft perfect meals with love, and, yes, of course, their 3 most formative books.

It was a treat hanging out with Chefs Houssam and Osama Harwash at their wonderful Chef Harwash food stall at 707 Dundas St W (at Bathurst and Dundas) in downtown Toronto.

Let’s flip the page into Chapter 125 now…

Chapter 125: Two Syrian Chefs share sheep and shawarma shopkeeping shenanigans

 
 
 
 

Chapter 124: Martellus Bennett weaves Willy Wonka and warrior wisdom

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Martellus Bennett is reimagining imagination. 

He’s perhaps best known in cultural press for his championship NFL career which included the famous Super Bowl LI comeback where his Patriots were down 28-3 at halftime and rallied for a 34-28 win in OT. But Martellus, who goes by Marty now as well as the new moniker Mr.TOMONOSHi, served as starting Tight End and recorded five catches for 62 yards as well as drawing the key Pass Interference penalty that set up the game-winning touchdown. He said afterwards he didn’t know they won. “I'm telling you, bro. I was in flow. Like, I don't know what the score is, right? I had no idea.”

There may be a few reasons for that flow experience, though. Marty has always been a truly broad and dimensional thinker who questions and examines everything. Why? “I had parents who let us talk at the kitchen table.” As a result, he’s still only in his 30s and has just massively varied interests and pursuits. “I’m always reading, searching, asking why, what if, or how?” 

Just as likely to be found in Japan searching for illumination, drawing cartoons to inspire young black kids (the award-winning book Dear Black Boy, as an example), tracing his family’s pre-slavery origins in Senegal, writing and releasing hip-hop albums, and always — always! — standing up and speaking out for what he believes in. No wonder he was one of the first NFL players kneeling in 2016 — joining Colin Kaepernick and older brother Michael — in a tough position that made him a target. Indeed, he left the Green Bay Packers after that year... “The way you feel the coldness when you walk into a freezer, you could feel the racism there.”

Today Marty carries and emanates the deep purpose of re-igniting imaginations worldwide. He wants to “activate imagination through touch, sound, smell, taste, and the body” and help support every human’s “opportunity to play, explore the universe, experience joy, wonder, and have active social connections regardless of age.”

He lives in Houston with his wife and daughter AJ and operates out of an an incredible in-the-neighborhood studio-space he’s named the TOMONOSHi! I+d LAB — a kind of magical Willy Wonka factory-esque playground full of hand-built bookshelves, woodshop tables, computers for recording music, a stump garden, and, yes, a Bird Hotel. When kids walk by they smile and scream out “Hi Mr. TOMONOSHi!” and he smiles and screams back. He’s even adopted their moniker as a way to communicate his expanding identity and purpose. He soaks into the identity and challenges societal norms around labels in almost every way.

Mr. TOMONOSHi interacts, serves, and connects with the community, writes and illustrates children’s books — like his popular Hey AJ series — and even has a deal with Disney for an upcoming series based on his books. “My life is my biggest art project,” he says.

And it’s a beautiful one. 

So let’s fly down to Houston, Texas and enjoy a long sunny morning at a hand-made table — made by Mr. TOMONOSHi, of course — to experience the wit, wonder, and wisdom of a true renaissance man. I hope you find this conversation as inspiring, challenging, and soul-fueling as I did.

Let’s flip the page into Chapter 124 now...

Chapter 124: Martellus Bennett weaves Willy Wonka and warrior wisdom

What You'll Learn:

  • How can we foster a connection with nature?

  • What is a stump garden?

  • What do trees tell us about neighborhoods?

  • What is an educational gap?

  • How is the prison system a for profit business?

  • What is code switching?

  • What is missing in children’s literature?

  • What is the Imagination Agency?

  • What is the art of book publishing?

  • What makes a movement?

  • What is the origin of the word dodo?

  • Who were the super slaves?

  • How was the slave trade perpetrated?

  • What is the power of imagination?

  • What is the truth about the chocolate industry?

  • How can cannabis help with focus?

  • What is creative freedom?

  • What does it mean to have an out of shape imagination?

  • How can we learn to take risks?

  • Why is reverse engineering an amazing skill?

  • Why is competition essential?

  • How can we reprogram ourselves to think differently?

  • How can we learn to manifest what we see as unmanifested?

  • How can systems outlast us to help others?

  • What is generational knowledge?

  • What makes for a good leader?

  • What is collective genius?

  • What can we learn from the samurais?

  • What is the power of our hands?

  • Why should we have kid-parent dates?

  • Who was the first black Samurai?

  • Why should we all have a code of ethics?

CONNECT WITH Marty

Marty’s 3 Books

  • Marty’s first book (40:18)

  • Marty’s second book (1:29:14)

  • Marty’s third book (2:09:34)

Click-to-tweet quotes

Show notes

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Chapter 123: Suzy Batiz on suffering, surviving, and selling shit

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“Do you realize what you’ve done? You’ve taken the smell out of shit!”

Suzy Batiz says this is what her husband Hector said — shocked! amazed! — when he realized the strange essential oil spray she’d been obsessively working on late into the night for nine straight months really and actually … worked.

Today Suzy is founder of billion-dollar-valued Poo-Pourri and supernatural. But the endless topline superlatives surrounding her — EY Entrepreneur of the Year, ranked #240 on Forbes “Richest Self-Made” Woman list just above Serena Williams — actually mask the more startling, complex, inspiring story underneath. Sure, there’s no denying the wealth — after all, we did this interview in the 15,000 square-foot church she lives in — but Suzy isn’t motivated by money. Never has been! She’s motivated by freedom, by energy, by making, by love — and by leading and sharing a life of inspiration.

I flew down to Dallas, Texas and sat with my friend Suzy Batiz to understand how exactly she navigated a lifetime of poverty, abuse, depression, divorces, bankruptcies, and suicide attempts in order to — bit by bit, step by step — manifest a life full of exploration, transformation, and abundance. Led by her curiosity, gumption, and an “I gotta get out” energy she reveals hard-fought lessons in personal growth, unicorn-building entrepreneurial advice, and deeply resonant nuggets of life-changing wisdom — much of which she’s never shared before. I think you will take away a tremendous amount from this conversation. And, for those feeling stuck, trapped, or helpless — there are many jungle vines hanging here to help you get out. Freedom is possible. Suzy will share a few ways to find it.

We discuss: the art of cold-calling, agency in abuse, finding angels, the problem with antidepressants, deuterium-depleted water, the trinity of transformation, 4 questions to break free of destructive thinking, ayahuasca voices, what entrepreneurs need to remember, Suzy Batiz's 3 most formative books, and much, much, much more…

Let’s flip the page into Chapter 123 now…

Chapter 123: Suzy Batiz on suffering, surviving, and selling shit

What You'll Learn:

  • What is the art of cold calling?

  • What is the emotional toll of bankruptcy?

  • How can we find meaning in our lives?

  • What are the questions we should be asking ourselves to break our patterns of destructive thinking?

  • How can we learn to shift our lens?

  • What is radical accountability?

  • What is the problem with antidepressants?

  • What do abundance and happiness have in common?

  • What does it mean to be human?

  • What does it mean to operate from a place of abundance?

  • What are the signs of resonance?

  • How do you create a business?

  • What do Suzy Batiz and Elon Musk have in common?

  • What is an ‘alive’ idea?

  • Why must we not be afraid to ask questions?

  • What are the scales of consciousness?

  • How does ayahuasca work?

  • What is expansiveness?

  • What is the trinity of transformation?

  • How do you know when you have arrived?

  • What is deuterium-depleted water? 

  • What is it like to live in a church?

  • How should we learn to trust ourselves?

  • What is the grief that leads to a suicide attempt?

  • What causes abuse?

Click-to-tweet quotes from Suzy

“My husband said to me ‘Do you realize what you've done? You've taken the smell out of shit!’” ― Suzy Batiz #3bookspodcast 3books.co/chapters/123

“There’s a myth out there that no one wants to help you and that everyone’s out to get you. I’ve found the exact opposite is true. Everyone wants to help you, everyone wants to support you — when you let them know your position.” ― Suzy Batiz #3bookspodcast 3books.co/chapters/123

“I didn’t have a drinking problem. I had a thinking problem. I was letting my thoughts actually create my suffering.” ― Suzy Batiz #3bookspodcast 3books.co/chapters/123

“People often ask ‘How long did it take you to remodel the place?’ And I say, you should ask the place ‘How long did it take to remodel me?’” ― Suzy Batiz #3bookspodcast 3books.co/chapters/123

“Pain begets pain until we start cleaning it up and clearing it up for the future generations. It’s the same cycle. It's a vibration. It's gonna keep getting repeated.” ― Suzy Batiz #3bookspodcast 3books.co/chapters/123

“I was willing to get rid of my story. I wanted freedom over any story that I had.” ― Suzy Batiz #3bookspodcast 3books.co/chapters/123

“Stop making good shit and start making great shit. We’ve got enough good in the world.” ― Suzy Batiz #3bookspodcast 3books.co/chapters/123

“I commit to expanding my capacity for abundance, love, and joy every day as I inspire others to do the same.” ― Suzy Batiz #3bookspodcast 3books.co/chapters/123

“If you want out, you can get out. The only question is what are you gonna do to get out? Once you know there’s a way out — you can find it.”  ― Suzy Batiz #3bookspodcast 3books.co/chapters/123

CONNECT WITH Suzy

Suzy’s 3 Books

  • Suzy’s first book (10:12)

  • Suzy’s second book (1:40:03)

  • Suzy’s third book (2:02:34)

Show notes

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Chapter 122: Tank Sinatra on masterpiece microdosing and meme mastery in our manufactured madness

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Diluting central news sources. Constantly narrowing echo chambers. An ever-fracturing sense of community. It’s easy to feel disconnected from each other right now — and from what’s collectively real and true in the world. We need people and places that help unify us and bring us together. 

“Fear displaces faith and vice versa,” says Tank Sinatra on Chapter 122 of 3 Books. “And laughter displaces everything. It’s impossible to be sad when you’re laughing.” It's no wonder more than 10 million people follow Tank — the world’s #1 meme creator.

At @tank.sinatra he shares with 3 million people a photo of Heath Ledger as The Joker, with stringy wet hair, in the nurse’s outfit, in the middle of a road, with smoke and fire in the background together with the caption “The CEO of Silicon Valley Bank after selling $4 million worth of his stock the day before collapse.”

At @tanksgoodnews he posts a photo of a woman holding a hot water bottle over her stomach with the Spanish flag and the tag “Spain just granted workers paid leave for period pain.” 

At @influencersinthewild he shows a tattooed woman posing in a bikini in front of the waves ... along with a follow-up image of the wave crashing over her and her hair and face all suddenly messed up with a caption that simply says “Ocean.”

“There’s something about laughing that’s heavenly,” he says. And the massively growing tribe and community forming around Tank's work agrees. Tank offers a clear reflection of our day and age. He speaks truth from a deep, resonant place which creates connection in divided times. 

In addition to posting daily on his megafeeds, he's also the host of the brand new 'true-crime comedy' podcast Psychopedia and creator of the hilarious Influencers In The Wild board game. 

Tank and I have been connected for 12 years (12 years!) from back in the ancient internet world when we became blogger friends. It was a real honor to reconnect with him for 3 Books and discuss microdosing reading, what ‘sales’ really is, religion versus spirituality, generational trauma, the pleasures and perils of social media, and, of course, his most formative books...

Let’s flip the page into Chapter 122 now…

Chapter 122: Tank Sinatra on masterpiece microdosing and meme mastery in our manufactured madness

 
 
 
 
 

Chapter 121: Johann Hari on deleting devious dogma and discovering deeper designs

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Happy full moon, everybody! 

Do you feel like the world today -- our culture today -- is pulling us further and further away from things that matter? Like deep in-person, real-life, human connections. Like the ability to focus on things that require deep thought, care, and time -- like reading books. Are you feeling yourself sucked into the algorithmic abyss -- where endless dings and pings and alerts and notifications pull us into echo chambers that prey on biological tendencies beyond our comprehension?

You may remember our chat on 3 Books six chapters ago with Dr. Gabor Maté who calls our culture today "toxic" and the record-levels of anxiety, depression, loneliness, and suicide rates we have today. So what do we do about it?

Well, our guest today is Johann Hari who will help me, help you, help all of us rekindle what is important in our life. How? By taking back our focus and our attention. 

Some history: I first heard about Johann back on Chapter 49 with Dr. Andrea Sereda. One of her 3 most formative books was CHASING THE SCREAM by Johann Hari. I read it cover to cover and it was a deep, nuanced book about the war on drugs and our cultural history and relationship with drugs. I made it one of my top books of the year.

So I reached out to Johann and we eventually sat down to get his 3 most formative books. 

Who is Johann Hari?

He was born in Glasgow in 1979 and when he was a year old his family moved to London where he lived most of his life. He studied social and political science at Cambridge and is now the author of three massive bestsellers: CHASING THE SCREAM, LOST CONNECTIONS, and his newest out in 2022 called STOLEN FOCUS: Why You Can't Pay Attention. His work has been lauded by everybody from Bono to Oprah and he's been named national newspaper journalist of the year by Amnesty International twice. 

Listen as we talk about: regaining our attention, kSafes, reading as resistance, negative bias, amygdala hijacks, managing intelligence, French burnout laws, and, of course, Johann's 3 most formative books...

I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did.

Let's flip the page into Chapter 121 now...

Chapter 121: Johann Hari on deleting devious dogma and discovering deeper designs

 

What You'll Learn:

  • What does reading offer?

  • What is happening to our ability to focus?

  • What are some practical ways to improve our focus?

  • What is the French burnout law?

  • What is the fallacy of multitasking?

  • What is negativity bias?

  • What can we do to counter the power of money-making algorithms?

  • Where is the power of the public in the tech debate?

  • Why is propaganda more crucial in free societies compared to others?

  • How can we maintain unity without propaganda?

  • How can we stay properly informed today?

  • Why is nuance so critical?

  • Why is it so important to delve into complexity?

  • Why is a black-and-white perspective so destructive?

Notable quotes from Johann

“We live in a culture where there's an enormous machinery designed to fragment your attention. That is making you dumber, less attentive, less empathetic. It is designed to make you angry.” Johann Hari #3bookspodcast

“All of this AI, all of these algorithms, all of this genius in Silicon Valley is designed for one thing and one thing only -- to figure out how to get you to pick up the app as often as possible and scroll as often as possible.” Johann Hari #3bookspodcast

“Reading books is a crucial act of resistance to the madness of our time.” Johann Hari #3bookspodcast

"We need to hold the ground for complexity and ambiguity and not making up our minds about people and allowing a little bit of space." Johann Hari #3bookspodcast

“You've gotta say that a business model based on tracking and surveilling us in order to figure out the weaknesses in our attention and sell that attention to the highest bidder is fundamentally inhuman and immoral.” Johann Hari #3bookspodcast

CONNECT WITH Johann

Johann’s 3 books

  • Johann’s first book (41:52)

  • Johann’s second book (1:08:08)

  • Johann’s third book (1:28:23)

notable links

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Chapter 120: Timothy Goodman on popping privilege paradigms and paving personal paths

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Happy Snow Moon, everybody!

I've been thinking a lot again about what makes life important.

I'm convinced it's just not social media. News media. The endless firehose of negativity being blasted at our brains out there. No. It's not that. It's the curtains we pull around ourselves and our loved ones to create and hold space to be our truest selves.

We’ve only got 30,000 days here and they are always, always, always fleeting. So let's make sure on 3 Books we create and hold space to talk about and celebrate what makes life sweet. Let's always plumb into the depths of inspiring and stimulating characters and people who share their wisdom with us and feel like good company on our path.

 To mark the Snow Moon we are going to be sharing company today with Timothy Goodman, one of the most open hearted, vulnerable, and artistic souls I think we've ever had on the show. How can I introduce you to him? Well, if you have this month’s issue of Time magazine Timothy drew the cover! If you live in New York City and saw a garbage truck drive by covered in doodles, that’s Timothy Goodman! If you hang out in trendy NYC hotels, Timothy Goodman has done art in the lobbies! He’s created art for the likes of Nike, Apple, Google, MOMA, Netflix, Tiffany, Samsung, Target, The New Yorker and The New York Times.

Timothy Goodman is the author of Sharpie Art Worksop and the co-creator of several social experiments including the viral blog and book, 40 Days of Dating. His first solo gallery exhibition, I’m Too Young To Not Set My Life on Fire was on view in Manhattan last year. And he just designed shoes for Kevin Durant -- the KD15! -- even though he’s a Knicks fan, as you'll hear.

Timothy has a brand new graphic memoir out called I Always Think It's Forever which talks about the year he spent travelling and falling in love. He has a wonderful way of writing -- like hiphop lyrics -- with endlessly stimulating braids of rhyme and design.

We are going to talk about: couples therapy, navigating stress, staying artistically fresh, prioritizing creativity, what it means to be a recovering misogynist, how to question our tropes about gender, mourning past versions of yourself, and of course, the incredible Timothy Goodman’s 3 most formative books.

Let’s flip the page into Chapter 120 now…

Chapter 120: Timothy Goodman on popping privilege paradigms and paving personal paths

 

What You'll Learn:

  • What is the 40 days of dating project?

  • How should we question our stereotypical tropes about gender?

  • When should a couple think about couples therapy?

  • What does it mean to be an expressionist?

  • How can artists stay fresh?

  • How can you maintain balance in life?

  • How do you prioritize creativity & values?

  • What does it mean to mourn yourself?

  • How should we take in social media?

  • What is an artist’s responsibility?

  • What does it mean to sell out?

  • What is an artist?

Notable quotes from Timothy:

“White people don't have to think about race ever. The same way men don't have to think about misogyny or sexism.” Timothy Goodman #3bookspodcast

“In some ways I call myself a recovering misogynist.” Timothy Goodman #3bookspodcast

“Your partner has direct access to your wounds.” Timothy Goodman #3bookspodcast

“There’s no such thing as selling out unless you’re going against your values.” Timothy Goodman #3bookspodcast

“As artists, we're in the business of consequence. What you put out matters. All art is political.” Timothy Goodman #3bookspodcast

“Can you find yourself in a state of becoming?” Timothy Goodman #3bookspodcast

CONNECT WITH timothy

word of the chapter:

Timothy’s 3 books

  • Timothy’s first book (15:19)

  • Timothy’s second book (30:12)

  • Timothy’s third book (52:28)

Links

Interesting Gems

Guests who’ve also picked Ayn Rand

Other Graphic Memoirs

Book Cover Designers

Extra Recommended Reads

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Chapter 119: Steve Toltz on refining writing rituals and raising ravenous readers

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What is your favorite novel?

It's a hard question. A big question! A question that makes most people hmmm for a while before they get to an answer. If they get to an answer! But I think I know mine. My favorite novel is A Fraction of a Whole by Steve Toltz.

First, the book came to me in an interesting way. I walked into wonderful indie bookstore Type on Queen Street West in downtown Toronto a couple days before my wedding to Leslie. I was looking for a good book to take on my honeymoon. (Insert obvious joke: "You wanted to read on your honeymoon?" But yes. I did. We did!)

I spent two or three hours with incredible bookseller Kalpna who painstakingly picked book after book off the shelf working through my way-too-long list of criteria: the book couldn't be too heavy, it couldn't be too *physically* large, but it also had to last the trip because I only had one tiny bag so, you know, it had to simultaneously be fairly dense. And it had to be fiction. And it had to be fast-paced. And it would be good if it was funny. And, and, and...

Well, Kalpna (bless her) kept pulling books off the shelves and I kept doing The First Five Pages Test to check every book for pace, tone, rhythm, style, and language. I must have flipped through a few dozen books before I ended up with A Fraction of a Whole by Steve Toltz. A book I'd never heard of! By a guy I'd never heard of!

Why? Well, the first sentence pulled me in: “You never hear about a sportsman losing his sense of smell in a tragic accident and for good reason; in order for the universe to teach excruciating lessons that we are unable to apply in later life, the sportsman must lose his legs, the philosopher his mind, the painter his eyes, the musician his ears, the chef his tongue.” I kept reading and it just took off from there. Piles of accolades littered across the jacket helped too: “Shortlisted for the Man Booker Prize”, "Finalist for The Guardian First Book Award", "Deserves a place next to The Confederacy of Dunces" (Wall Street Journal), "Soars like a rocket!" (LA Times), "A comic masterpiece!" (Ottawa Citizen) and on and on...

I fell deep into Steve’s Toltz’s absurd world of endless turns and surprise pearls of wisdom and spent years since then trying to land this interview with him! He is a deep and focused writer who is well off social media and doesn't do "the rounds" so it took some time. I emailed him some of my favorite lines from his books, sat in the front row to hear him speak at the International Festival of Authors, and waited -- just waited! -- for his next novel to come out so I could try again. And now it finally has...

Steve Toltz was born in 1972 in Sydney, Australia and he is the Man Booker-shortlisted award-winning novelist of three books including A Fraction of the Whole (2008), Quicksand (2016), and his newest Here Goes Nothing (2022). I personally recommend starting with A Fraction of the Whole because it was so deeply affecting to me and many folks I've recommended it to, but all three contain his wholly original sideways genius that constantly amazes and surprises.

Steve has lived in Montreal, Vancouver, New York, Barcelona, Paris, and Los Angeles and worked as a cameraman, telemarketer, security guard, private investigator, teacher, screenwriter, and, well, a lot more. I'm not sure he's right but he says in this interview: "If you want to become a novelist you sort of have to be a loser for a while.”

I was so excited to talk to Steve Toltz and we go deep on many things including: fear of death, Woody Allen, writing by hand in two-hour chunks, finding your voice, anonymity and success, Russian Literature, how to avoid quitting, how to start big projects, raising readers, books for boys, and, of course, the incredible Steve Toltz’s 3 most formative books.

It is my privilege, pleasure, and honor to share this conversation. As always, I'll be in your left ear, Steve will be in your right, and we pull up a chair between us for you to come on in...

Let’s flip the page into Chapter 119 now…

Chapter 119: Steve Toltz on refining writing rituals and raising ravenous readers

 

What You'll Learn:

  • What does fear of death make us do?

  • What are the different ways authors develop character in a novel?

  • What is the value of a reading list?

  • What is the connection between Woody Allen and Russian Literature?

  • What misconceptions do we have about classical literature?

  • What is Steve’s writing process?

  • What is the power of writing by hand?

  • What does it mean to write with your subconscious?

  • What is a writer’s voice?

  • How do writer’s deal with anonymity and success?

  • How do we not quit big projects?

  • How can we learn to accept criticism?

  • How do we separate the art from the artist?

  • How do you raise a reader?

  • What are the best books for young boys?

  • How can we reclaim our focus?

Notable quotes from steve:

“We want to be understood, but as soon as somebody labels us we kind of struggle against it.” Steve Toltz #3bookspodcast

“The most negative thing we put out into the world is indifference, it is the fact of not helping people when we could.” Steve Toltz #3bookspodcast

“I have a beginning point and an end point, but I have no idea what the journey is. That is the process.” Steve Toltz #3bookspodcast

“When I was writing Quicksand, I think I spent three years on page one, and all of those page ones are in the book in different places.” Steve Toltz #3bookspodcast

“I just have to pick up any book that I love, read one sentence and I'm fired up to write.” Steve Toltz #3bookspodcast

“When I read an author that I love, I want to know what they loved. I wanna know how they became the writer that they were.” Steve Toltz #3bookspodcast

“Voice is usually an alter ego.” Steve Toltz #3bookspodcast

“If you wanna become a novelist, you just sort of have to be a loser for a while.” Steve Toltz #3bookspodcast

“It takes a while for talent to catch up with ambition.” Steve Toltz #3bookspodcast

“The hourly wage of a novelist puts a sweat shop to shame.” Steve Toltz #3bookspodcast

“Ignore your contemporaries and just never stop reading.” Steve Toltz #3bookspodcast

“Deep focus is the coin of the realm and that is the thing that is being lost and chipped away at. You have to fight to get your focus back. Put your technology away in another room and read.” Steve Toltz #3bookspodcast

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Resources mentioned

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Chapter 118: Catherine Hernandez poses for positivity with pride and presence

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Do you ever have a book go viral through your family?

 Your aunt reads it and tells everyone at dinner. The copy gets passed along. A few more dog ears show up. The spine gets cracked. And a year later half a dozen people have read it?

 Well that's what happened in our family with Catherine Hernandez's wonderful debut novel Scarborough. I even just put it on my Best Of 2022 list!

 Catherine Hernandez is an award winning Canadian author and screenwriter.

Born in Toronto, she is a proud queer woman of Filipino, Spanish, Chinese and Indian descent. She attended Ryerson University (now called Toronto Metropolitan University) for theatre but pretty quickly realized that she wanted to write. She started in magazines but soon branched off to books and plays.

So her first novel, Scarborough tells the story of a place -- a low-income, culturally diverse neighborhood east of Toronto -- my home and the fourth largest city in North America. Scarborough is a multi-voiced novel with unforgettable characters: Victor, a black artist harassed by the police, Winsum, a West Indian restaurant owner struggling to keep it together, Bing, a gay Filipino boy who lives under the shadow of his father's mental illness, and many more.

I couldn't put it down. Neither could a lot of people! Scarborough has won a slew of prizes and awards and was turned into a critically acclaimed film which became first runner-up for the People’s Choice Award at TIFF in 2021.

Catherine has gone on to write a number of other books including Crosshairs and Singkil, The Femme Playlist. Her next book, due out in 2023, The Story of Us is about a caregiver and her elderly client. And she’s even put out children’s books, like M is for Mustache and Where Do Feelings Live.

We talk about many things in this conversation including: body image, social support systems, posing nude, finding voice, authenticity in books, the tragedy of Turtle Island, being confronted by otherness and the beautiful traditions of a Navajo wedding.

Catherine is a talent and a force and such a dream guest.

Let’s flip the page into Chapter 118 now…

Chapter 118: Catherine hernandez poses for positivity with pride and presence

What You'll Learn:

  • What is Scarlem?

  • How do we find our voice?

  • What are the singular pressures that the kids of immigrant parents feel?

  • What is it like to pose nude for a magazine?

  • How can we learn to accept and celebrate our bodies?

  • What are the Blue Zones?

  • What is true authenticity in books?

  • How can we fight the algorithms to spread the word on lesser known great books?

  • Why is being confronted by otherness an imperative?

  • What is the tragedy of Turtle Island?

  • What are the privileges of the settler?

  • What are the special elements of a Navajo wedding?

Notable quotes from catherine:

“Not having access to a lot of cash has meant that we've had to be really creative about how we spend time with one another.” Catherine Hernandez #3bookspodcast

“I always believed that my ancestors are speaking through me and I'm just putting down what they're telling me to say.” Catherine Hernandez #3bookspodcast

“I swallowed the book whole because that's what I feel like when I get a good book. It feels like it's an actual meal and you're digesting it over weeks after finishing it.” Catherine Hernandez #3bookspodcast

“When I'm reading, I don't expect that the lives of, or the terms that the characters are referring to are gonna be the same as what I know.” Catherine Hernandez #3bookspodcast

“I have to be in partnership with indigenous communities to end the system of genocide against them. And I have to be in partnership with them in order to steward this land properly with love and with a respect for their traditions.” Catherine Hernandez #3bookspodcast

“Don't focus on becoming a writer, focus on telling a story.” Catherine Hernandez #3bookspodcast

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